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    Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

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    ElvisIsntDead
    Marine

    Posts : 304
    Join date : 2010-03-10
    Age : 31
    Location : Eye of Terror

    Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by ElvisIsntDead on Mon May 03, 2010 8:30 am

    Hi all,

    Interesting point on BoLS, this would mainly affect Sternguard with the Gets Hot shots.

    Just wondering what your take on the rule is:

    http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/05/40k-conundrum-falling-back-while.html

    and before Damian jumps in trying to protect his UltraW***Marines, I would like to see references, if none, then opinion.


    for me i can see both ways, maybe when wounds are caused they are not fleeing the enemy, just getting out the vehicle, a gun exploding in your face is dangerous (from personnal exp, ive seen two run away guns (heavy machine guns) and its not nice when the gunner loses control). But also they are in vehicle, so wont de-bus etc

    hows about you guys!

    Elvis

    Kelmacett
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by Kelmacett on Mon May 03, 2010 7:49 pm

    I've read the relevant sections in the book: morale checks (troops/vehicles), shooting at vehicles, damage results etc... And there is no clear rule answer to this problem. I think any interpretation will be as un-rules based as the next one.

    1- The unit is not affected, the vehicle cant fall-back, the passengers can but are not able to because the just embarked.
    2- The transport and passengers fall back.
    3- The transport is unaffected and the unit disembarks and falls back.

    - Point 1 ignores the unit's failed test.
    - Point 2 ignores the fact that vehicles cant fall back.
    - Point 3 allows units to embark and disembark the same turn.

    There you go now vote!
    lol


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    ElvisIsntDead
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by ElvisIsntDead on Mon May 03, 2010 9:01 pm

    in the example they gave the unit embarked on the same turn, this doesnt have to be the case?

    if the unit was already in the vehicle then officially they could dis-embark.

    I like this because damian likes to take sternguard (5) in a vehicle Razz

    Gonna be a FAQ point, or Grand Tournament FAQ.

    Elvis

    Anarkhia
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by Anarkhia on Mon May 03, 2010 9:32 pm

    Embarking and disembarking can only be done during the movement phase so that rules out number "3" out. Also a vehicle can never fall back either so that's number "2" out.

    I think for simplicities sake we should just count any models being transported as fearless, which also coincides with number "1"


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    Kelmacett
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by Kelmacett on Tue May 04, 2010 6:14 am

    Any of the 3 choices involves a club ruling really. So once we all agree on the ruling we can make it official. So if you agree that we the only viable choices are the three i suggested lets just vote.

    I agree with Julian so..

    I vote for choice one which means that they need not test. Note do not state that they are Fearless as this would in turn make them immune to a host of other rules we have not considered.

    I also suggest making a seperate info thread on the forum where we keep these ruling for referrence to other club members with the caveat:
    1- That as soon as anyone can bring an official solution this will be updated as required.
    2- This ruling is only enforceable at Club Games.

    Damkat
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by Damkat on Wed May 05, 2010 5:37 am

    In the space marine codex page 31 under get hot rules it mentions no indication that casualties count towards the 25% casualty for a moral check. However in page 44 of the rule book under taking moral checks it says that a unit losing 25% of models during a single phase must pass a morale check at the end of the phase.

    So when comparing both rules it sounds fair that if sternguard do suffer the 25% from gets hot they should roll for moralle.

    However the problem arises if they are embarked in a vehicle, as daniel pointed out there is no hard rule covering this.

    Julians point of only disembarking/embarking during the movement phase cements the concept that they cannot fall back (sterguard anyway due to get hot)from the vehicle, but they should not count as fearless.

    @Elvis, I usually take 7 sternguard in a vehicle afro

    Damkat
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by Damkat on Wed May 05, 2010 6:02 am

    there was a reply on the post elvis started and i believe it is a solid one as it is an official adepticon faq ruling.

    RB.66E.02 – Q: Can an embarked unit ever be forced to fall back or become pinned while in/on a vehicle (or building)?
    A: Unless explicitly specified otherwise, no [clarification].


    i personnaly agree with it.

    ElvisIsntDead
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    Re: Falling Back whilst in vehicles!

    Post by ElvisIsntDead on Wed May 05, 2010 7:34 am

    fair enough!

    Elvis

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