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    Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

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    What do you think is correct method?

    [ 2 ]
    29% [29%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 5 ]
    71% [71%] 

    Total Votes: 7

    Anarkhia
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    Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:42 am

    Ok... One day GW might explain how to use this rule properly, instead of including it in every edition without a clear explanation.

    Swarm rule:
    pg43.
    If a Swarm suffers an unsaved Wound
    from a Blast, Large Blast or Template
    weapon, each unsaved Wound is
    multiplied to two unsaved Wounds

    If a unit consisting of 5 ripper swarms (3 wounds each) gets hit by a blast/template weapon that inflicts 2 wounds on them. What would be the correct way in dealing with it.

    a) 2 wounds are doubled, causing 4 wounds which kills one base and inflicts 1 wound on the second base (leaving 3 fully healthy and happy rippers)
    b) first ripper swarm takes 1 wound which is doubled to 2. Then when the second wound is allocated, it is also doubled, but the model has no more wounds remaining, so is therefore wasted. Resulting in 1 dead ripper swarm, and 4 fully healthy and happy ripper swarms

    Instant Death:
    pg16.
    If a model suffers an unsaved
    Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value of double
    its Toughness value or greater (after modifiers), it is reduced
    to 0'Wounds and removed as a casualty.

    pg38.
    Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an Attack
    with this special rule automatically
    inflict Instant Death, regardless of the
    victim's Toughness

    Next question is the same, but what will happen if the weapons strength is double the toughness of the ripper swarm, causing instant death. Is it:

    1) 2 unsaved wounds becomes 4 because of the swarm rule; and thus 4 instant deaths with 1 happy (but also lonely) healthy ripper
    2) 2 unsaved wounds cause 2 instant deaths as the model suffers double wounds and instant death simultaneously, leaving 3 happy and healthy rippers

    Here's some other peoples opinions on the matter: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?26507-Swarm-rules-and-instant-death



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    Rakoo
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Rakoo on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:59 am

    b & 2

    b because you allocate wound, make a save, it's unsaved and now you do math. I think this is all done within just one model.

    same for 2: you allocate wound, make a save, it's unsaved so you have 2 instant deaths for that particular base

    My opinion


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    Damkat
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Damkat on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:15 am


    1 question, is the unit considered a swarm or the individual bases?

    Anarkhia
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:29 am

    Damkat wrote:
    1 question, is the unit considered a swarm or the individual bases?

    The "swarms" rule is under the universal special rules. Some of which refers to units (e.g. fearless), some of which refers to models (e.g. rending). Hence part of the predicament lol, although they tend to state on the first line of the ruling.

    I've quoted what it says under the swarms rule above


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    Damkat
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Damkat on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:44 am

    So ur rippers for eg. are an infantry unit with the swarm special rule and not a swarm unit? Therefore making each base a swarm. And the unit not a swarm but many swarm bases (gotta love GW).

    tis indeed a pain in the arse, i can see arguments to both sides. However my above question could be the solution.

    Apparently the old FAQ was ruled as a) and 1). (tbh this is as we have always played at the club).

    Hmm i need to ponder for a while, then eat some cake and then cast my vote....

    Damkat
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Damkat on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:46 am

    Hey Maciej, thought you had left Gib.. Not signing up to the ladder?

    Rakoo
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Rakoo on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:48 am

    Hi mate,

    I was visiting my family and than in London. Can't participate in ladder. There is a chance I will have to go to London for about 3 months around April to have a new kidney. So don't want to start something I cannot finish Smile


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    Maciej

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    Anarkhia
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:49 am

    Yeah i'm a bit confused too on which side to lean on myself lol.

    Now let's throw another spanner into the works.

    What if there is a character in the unit and you believe it should be option "a - 1". Would an excess wound get transferred over to him? Or would that not happen as he does not have the swarm rule and the excess wound is ignored? Or is this not a problem because you have opted to go for "b - 2" haha.


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    Damkat
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Damkat on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:56 am

    Can a character join a unit where majority are swarms?

    If so i think this leans more to b)and 2)

    Anarkhia
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:57 am

    Yes, but characters could also join swarms in 5th edition, so in theory that shouldn't be the deciding factor.

    I hate swarms lol


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    Damkat
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Damkat on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:59 am

    In 5th however it was FAQ, for now 6th hasnt so......

    I hate swarms lol

    Anarkhia
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:02 am

    For now we'll go with whatever the majority vote is until an FAQ comes out


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    Anarkhia
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Anarkhia on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:53 pm

    We still need people to vote on this. Only 4 have actually done so.

    As it stands the club will be enforcing method B & 2, unless a tide in votes swings it another way


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    Vangeleon
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    Re: Swarms (The pain in the arse continues)

    Post by Vangeleon on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:42 pm

    b2 makes the most sense, single would becomes double on a model by model basis, excess wounds dont go over (from wounds doubled)

    and any wound suffered by single base that insta kills, that model dies, assign next wound, kill, next wound kill. etc

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